Jennifer from Vegan Tech Nomad - The secrets behind monetizing a social media audience

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creators.Now, back to our show.Welcome everyone and thank you, Jennifer, for saying yes and being here.How are you?Yeah, I'm really excited to be here and I'm excited to share all of my numbers transparentlybecause I made these graphs last night and they look amazing.That's super cool.I really appreciate it.For anyone that doesn't know you too much, like, you know, who are you?What do you do?What are your channels?Everything.Can you give us a bit of the overview?Oh my gosh, it's kind of chaotic, which I guess is on brand for me.So my main channel is Instagram.I have almost 70K followers there because I went viral a few times for my unhinged productivityand organization tips because I track my entire life, like, from the time that I spend onthings to, like, how many times I cried, things like that.And then once that took off, I started building in public my newsletter and my creator brandand I post all of my building public posts on Twitter and I guess a lot of people therefound my newsletter tips very helpful.So I grew a following there too and I had, like, two separate brands here.So for my Instagram and my newsletter, I grew to, like, 40,000 followers and I think,like, 11K or 12K subscribers in two weeks.And that was when, like, all my videos were going viral.And then for Twitter, I grew to, like, just almost a thousand followers in, I think itwas three months, three or four months.So Twitter was a bit slower, but I didn't really go viral multiple times.So, yeah.Yeah, that's super cool.Because one of the things that I loved about you and that, you know, because I actuallyfound you on Twitter, you know, I didn't find you on Instagram, I found you on Twitter.So I was like, you know, this person is so cool because you share, like, everything superopenly, like, I would say, like, transparency is, like, super, you know, I mean, it's abig part of your brand, right?You share, like, all the numbers, like, you're asking questions all the time, like, how shouldI do this?You know, like, you're super building public.So I was wondering, like, why did you choose this angle, you know, for, like, your contentand so on?Why are you so open with it?Like, do you, you know, is that something that, you know, it's a strategic decision?I understand it is, but why did you choose it?Yeah, I think it just came naturally to me because I'm the type of person who posts abouttheir life online a lot, like on my Instagram story.So kind of posting about my business on Twitter made sense to me.And it's, like, my first, it's not my first startup, but it's my first time building acreative brand.So I wanted to get feedback from other people because I'm, like, building it by myself andI didn't want to feel alone.So having other people there to support me really helped with the motivation.And I also wanted to help people because I decided my personal lifestyle, or personalNorth Star metric was to positively impact as many people as I can.And I could do that by sharing what I'm learning.And I'm a huge believer in collaboration over competition.So whenever I get comments like, this is so helpful for my own newsletter, like, it reallymotivates me to keep going and keep sharing.Okay.Yeah, that's super cool.I love that angle and that vibe.And I think it really works, you know, in your case, because you actually, like, oneof your, I mean, we can't talk about, like, your products, like everything that you have,but the one that got my attention was that your behind the scenes kind of newsletterwhere you share openly all the metrics.I think you actually brought some of the metrics for us to see today.So I was wondering, like, because you also, you actually get people to pay for you toshare that, right?Like, you get, it's like a paid subscription.So how does that work?Can you tell us a bit more about, like, that part of your business?Yeah.I don't even know why I decided to do it.But when my free productivity newsletter took off, I opened a premium one just because Isaw that was an option that I could do.And I think the premium one is a completely separate brand because that one's more builtin public.And then the free one is like productivity.So I might actually make two different newsletters for the paid one, I include a lot of templatesand just like additional information.And I think that's because I've always wanted somewhere where I can document all of thissince I'm a person who likes to track things and like document everything.I've journaled everything since like 2015.Every single day I write down what I do.So it's like, I don't want to forget this.I want to document how I'm building things.And that kind of just led to the premium newsletter naturally.Some things I wasn't like super confident sharing, like publicly for anyone to see.So then I just put it behind a paywall.And then people have emailed me saying that it's helpful to look at the real numbers.But at the same time, the stuff that I am confident sharing in public, I also make aYouTube video about it.So the distribution and repurposing is like, I tweet stuff that I learned throughout theweek.And then whichever tweet does the best or I like the most, I turn that into my premiumnewsletter.And then that becomes my YouTube script.And then I like fix it up a little bit with the hooks.And then I film a YouTube video about it.And then I promote the YouTube video in my premium newsletter the next week or in myTwitter.Yeah, that's really interesting that you have like this content strategy that's based onlike proven content, right?If it resonates, it means that it's an interesting thing to expand on.I think that's super smart, actually.But the other thing that struck me from in your case, like in your business, is thatas you said, you have kind of two separate brands.There is like, you know, your Instagram brand, which is productivity and stuff like that.And then there is like the other, I don't know how to say, like Jennifer, the creator,you know, where you share like how you are building your creator business, you know,on that side.So like, how do you think about those, you know, because I understand it's somethingthat you might be struggling a little bit with, because I've seen it with other creatorsthat have like the similar thing.So how do you, how do you think, like, how do you manage those two like brands rightnow?Yeah, I think those two brands is, it's kind of confusing, because I've always had troublefocusing on one thing that I wanted to do, since I see myself as more of a generalist.I like doing a lot of things.That's why I work with startups, because, you know, you kind of have to do everythingin a startup.So right now, it's a little confusing, because I think I'm struggling with something a lotof people would love to struggle with, which is like, too many people are asking me forhelp.But it's like, for completely different things.So when you get a lot of requests for like, notion organization staff, and then also like,you know, newsletter building stuff, it's like, you're kind of spread very thin, andyou have a lot of different things to think about.Whereas if I had just focused on one thing, I would be like, this is my offer, like, youhave to take it or leave it.So like, I can go into my revenue streams and like all these different clients.But basically, it's something that I'm still struggling with.But I'm right now, like, I'm trying to focus on what has the highest ROI, which is whyI track everything.Because like, in some of my graphs, you'll see the ROI chart, because I track all mytime.But then I also track how much money I'm making.So I just do the graph there.Yeah.Maybe we can take a look and just chat through it.Because I think that's super interesting that you do that.Because in early stage, I've seen also like a lot of creators do the same.Like, we do like many things, because we don't know exactly what's like our thing or whatwe like to do the most.But many people don't track it, you know, they don't do this exercise that you do, like,okay, what brings me more money for the time invested, right?So I think that what you're doing is super interesting.I think I used to track like, I used to actually be in like the food and travel niche.But I a lot of it's not just the tracking stuff, because then I could have looked ateverything that was doing well in my videos in that niche, or like, yeah, doing competitiveresearch on other people in that niche.But some of it is also instinct, and what you think people would like.So for example, the videos that went viral were things that my friends already told mewere super cool that they really liked.So I posted it on TikTok first, but it didn't really get much traction.So I had to post it again multiple times on different platforms as well, for it to pickup and it picked up around New Year's, which was when people were starting to get intolike habit tracking and goal setting.So the timing also matters a lot.And understanding like the trends and what's gonna do well.And did you change anything about the videos, like when you were like trying again, or itwas the same video, but just the timing was different?It was that I posted it on a different platform.So Instagram, and then I just like posted it around New Year's.But I think one video that went viral kind of caused an uplift in the other trackingvideos.Yeah, so yeah, like I can share my social media numbers as well.Yes, yes, please, like, if you want, we can try to pull the screen.And for everyone who's listening, I will try to, you know, also like say it.So if you want, let's pull it up.I'll share my social media stuff first then.Okay, yes.So this is the platform that I use to schedule everything,but it also has my post analytics,except for Twitter,because I think they changed their APIand now it's like super expensive for this platform,so they make it pay for it now.So you manage all of your social from one place, right?From this tool?I think this is Metricool, right?So- Yes, it is.Yeah, so use it free.Okay, cool.And we can see here-It's completely free.I don't like to go by views or likes,because I feel like those are vanity metrics.I like to go by saves, shares, and comments.So if you look at the most saved content,it was workplace documentation,and that's the template I made the most money from,and the video that went the most viral.And this is basically just like how you have to documentyour wins and everything you doin a promotion doc somewhere.And this is the post that got me,it wasn't the first post that went viral,but it was the post that got me the most followers,because I was checking my Instagram analytics,and it seemed like some of the other posts that went viral,people didn't really care about following my account after,but this one, they followed me.And it's interesting to see which posts made them followand which content they want more of.Yeah, that's interesting,because that's what happens with virality sometimes, right?That it goes viral,but then it doesn't translate into actual business metrics,doesn't translate into followers or into subscribers.But I think that it's curiousthat you got a lot of followers,so you know that you can make more of that type of content,so you can go viral more times and get more followers,which is the ultimate goal also.Yeah, and also knowing what to monetize.So I hosted a live workshop on workplace documentationand sent emails about workplace documentation,because I knew that was the biggest moneymaker,because most people have purchased that template.It's most popular out of all my other ones.That's super interesting.But you had the template before the post, right?So because you actually, I mean,I look at your products that you sell at the templatesand you have like a lot, you know,I don't know how many you have,but like 10, 15, maybe.So how do you know like what to build?So like what's the, you know,how do you decide what to build next,you know, as a template, for example?Yeah, so it's mostly stuff that I already have in my life.So it's not that big of a deal for me to post them.And for me, it's like, I think it's normal to do,but I've had people like at workor people who have worked with me in the pastand they're like, this is so cool.So I knew there was something there,which is why I thought it would be cool to share it.And then when I do share it,it turns out other people think it's cool too.But let me share the proofthat it's my most popular template, I think,because I need to double check the numbers.So the workplace documentation template is this one.I charged $10 for it, it's made 127 sales at 1.3K.Let me just make sure that it's my most profitable template.Yeah, okay.I think so, yeah, yes.The other one is my all-in-one Notion Live templateand that one is a bit more expensive,so I got less purchases.But this one, I have a YouTube tutorial for alreadyand it was also another video that went viraland got me a lot of followers.Okay, yeah.So I mean, it's super cool that you see the business model.So basically it's like, you have this templateand then you make content that talks aboutthe thing that this template sellsand then you promote the template basically, right?So is it a bit like that?Is it like that?Yeah, and then what I do is I use DM automation.So every time somebody comments on my post,it gets boosted, but then they also get the link via DM.So they're gonna get a notificationand won't forget about it.And I used to use ManyChat for this actually,but then it was a struggle for mebecause every time I posted,I had to do the automation stuff.I wanted to just schedule it and forget it.So I use this other platform built by one personand I DM him any issues and he fixes it, so it's amazing.That's amazing.But I don't wanna gatekeepand I know he's gonna blow up soon,so it's getlinkin.chat and that's the website.Wait, actually I can screen share how I use it as well.Yeah, that would be coolbecause I've heard of ManyChat a lot for Instagram,but I didn't know about this one that we can see here.So that's super cool that you use that onebecause I imagine that you send a lot of DMs with it, right?Yeah, so what I like about this one actuallyis that I don't need to, like I can just schedule my posts.So in my scheduled posts, I write just in the caption,comment and then I have to put in quotation marks,the keyword and then I put the link in the captionand then I tag them and then their AI just scrapesthe caption and knows exactly which link to send.Wow, yeah, that's pretty cool.I don't even have to go on this platform.I just like do it right in my scheduling tooland then since the caption is all they need,like everything's just scheduledand it's super easy for me.Oh yeah, yeah, that's really goodbecause I've worked with other peoplewith other tools that do this on Twitter or LinkedInand these automated DMs sometimes are super hardbecause the APIs are like really,they don't really like it too muchwhen you do this kind of automation.So on Instagram, it's cool to see thatyou found the workaroundbecause it usually doesn't work that well.So that's cool.Ooh, okay, I can, this reminds me of another thingI have to screen share, but I'll explain what I'm sharing.Okay, cool.So this is an example. I like it.Yeah, this is an example of the premium emailand then I have templates and checklists and stuffand then here's like a list of tools that I useand then for, I still haven't edited this week's videowhich is basically this newsletter issuebut I am going to go over exactlywhat each platform looks likebut like you don't have to make a,because sometimes it's annoying to make an accountto see what, how to use the platform.So I like screen share all of my accountsand then I share like this is what I use it forand this is how you use it.But that's a video coming up soon on my YouTube.It's just such a pain to edit.Yeah, that's another thing that I've noticedthat you mentioned somewhere that you don't liketo have too many things behind like a paywallor like behind like giving your email or stuff like thatbecause you like to give like information for free firstlike for everyone, which is a pretty cool thing, you knowbecause some people think that if you give everythingfor free, then no one will, you know, subscribeto your thing or pay, but it turns out it's the contrary.Right, at least in your case it isbecause you are literally giving like all your numbersand everything for free and people keep subscribingand keep coming to you.So what do you think about that?Yeah, so I actually do that for my Instagram as well.Like when I make people DM me for a templateI send them the direct link to the template itself.They don't have to sign up for my email list or anythingbut inside the template, it's like, if you enjoyed thisor found value, like I'd appreciate if you supported meby subscribing, but the option is there.And I think that builds a better relationshipbecause otherwise it's like, they're gonna be inactiveand then I'll have to clean the listeven though I have an automation for that.So it's like, I wanna start the relationship off right.You know, that's super cool.But I'm guessing that a lot of email marketerswill be super mad at you that you do that.You know, because, you know, the usual is likeyou make them, you know, the linkand then you put them through an email funnel or whatever,you know, and you do the opposite, which is pretty cool.You know, honestly, I think it's a cool thing to do.And as you said, it builds a trust relationship.And then actually the people that sign upis people that actually want to receive your emails.Right?And then what I found interestingwas that some people don't follow me,but they DM me and they sign up for my mailing list,but they wanna keep their Instagram cleanso they don't follow me.And then the opposite is true for some other people.They don't like checking their emails.They don't want their emails to get spammed.So instead they only follow me on Instagram.And that's why I have to like repurpose all my contentand distribute it everywhere and like schedule everything.Yeah, that's pretty cool.So I have a question before we jump into likemaybe the monetization more part of it.I have a question on the content creationbecause as you mentioned,like one of the keys of your growth,like so fast is that you have gone viral a few times.Have you noticed like a trend in like all of that contentthat has gone viral for you?Is there like a thing that you say, okay,when I talk about these thingsor when I talk about in this way, this goes viral.Do you, have you noticed that like?Yeah, so most of it is like something truly weirdand interesting that people can find useful.So one of them was the workplace documentation.Another one was for like tracking your life.And another one that I knew would do really wellbecause it was so weirdand I was almost hesitant to share it is,you know how I track everything in my life?I also track how many times I poop every day.So I went through that entire poop tracking listand I was like trying to find correlationsbetween pooping and crying.Yeah, and the people loved that,but I don't think I got as many followers from thatas from the other more useful stuff.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, but that's, it's also like a fun thing, you know,and it shows a bit of maybe personality too, you know,like you are not always like workplaceand things like that are more serious.It's like, you know, there's a bit of everything literally.A lot of people, they tell me,I went famous for like my productivity and tracking,but on my Instagram stories,I post a lot of other stuff about my life.So I post about the food that I'm eating.I post about, you know, other stuff like exercisebecause I'm training for a triathlon,but a lot of people reply to those storiesand they're like,you are my inspiration for all areas of my life.I want to exercise and like eat well like you do.And then it just, you know,you build a more loyal audienceand like have more valuable relationshipswith people that way.Yeah, definitely.Yeah, it's cool because you're,yeah, because you are mixing like real lifewith like the business side,but you're also showing that you are a real person behind it,you know, that eats and trains for a triathlon,which is kind of crazy.I don't know how you do that.Yeah, I think for creative business,it's so different because like people follow you for you.I noticed that sometimes I,because I do kind of the similar thing for work.I practice making videos for my works TikTok,which I agree to like almost 50K followers,but then I stopped being active on it.A lot of people, they're like,oh, this is a company account.I don't trust it.But when I post something similar on my personal account,a lot of people trust it more because it's like more real.So that's why I'm so bullish on creator economy.But sometimes startups want to sponsor meand then they don't understandthat it's more of a brand awareness channeland like you get better resultsif I post multiple videos than just one video.So sometimes they're like,you know, I can't get attributable conversions,but I'm like, sorry, it's like more brand.I understand that from a brand perspectivebecause like my actual day jobis I work at a startup in marketingand we do a lot of creator partnerships.And sometimes, you know,it's hard to get money for a creator.You know, if I talk with the CMO or whatever,it's like, okay, this creator costs like 5Kand he's like, okay, and what's the return, you know?And sometimes they're like, impressions are great,but we want conversions, you know?So that's a tricky conversation,but I mean, I get the brands,but I also understand you, you know,you're saying brands, okay, you know,this is not that much of a conversion channel.This is like a, you know, awareness channel.So I mean, I totally understand that.That's why I tend to also like give them usage rightsso they can run it as adsand then see how like the clicks are doingand if it actually performs.Do you charge for that?Curious.Do I what?If you charge for it, like for the usage rights.You always have to charge extrafor all these extra things.Okay.But if it's somebody I know,or if it's like a small startupand I know they can't really afford it,then I give them a big discount.But usually like a lot of influencers don't know this,but you have to charge for usage rights,link in bio, story posts.Like there's so many things that you can charge forand then some people just under charge themselves, but.Yeah.Okay.So now that we are talking about money,why don't we take like,because you also have the numbers, right?Yeah.I can share that in a bit,but let me just share really quicklythe hooks that I found worked.Cause I.Okay, yeah.Cause we were talking about videos that.Yes, yes, yes.Let's see that.So I actually did this for my personal brandand then also in the past for my work account.And then for my work account, one video,it was all the same video, by the way.The only thing different was the text on the screenfor like the first two seconds.One video got like 500K viewsand the rest only got a few thousand.So this is the impact of testing hooks.Wow.And then for my personal brand,the most views was like 5K, which isn't that much,but it was still interesting to test.So I wrote, I did a video on thisand I actually also tested this videobecause I had two different thumbnailsand I posted with one thumbnailand it didn't get too many views from YouTubebecause I didn't promote it in any other channel.And I tested the second thumbnail,which just says stop wasting time.And then the title is like,how to test video hooks to go viral.And then when I, as soon as I swapped the thumbnails,like you could just see the spike go up.And then this is all traffic only from YouTube.Cause I was very intentionalabout not linking it anywhere else.So that was interesting to see,but in the actual experiment,I had the exact same video,only the first two seconds were differentand I outlined what was different.So some of the videos,it had a green screen with like a visualthat entranced people.They wanted to watch more.Some of it was just like my blank white wall behind me.And then I also, okay.So first there was the visual hook of what you see.And then there's the text hook,which is the text on screen.So like three ways to do unhinged live tracking,tracking my entire life.Now three of my best tracking tips,exposing my tracking system.And then what I said was also different.So in the captions and you like what you hear,it's like, you know,I track my entire life or three organization tipsand I turn my life into a product.So I was just trying to test educational versus,like the entire video was the same, right?So it was still educational and entertaining,but only the hook was different.And then like one of the hooks was educational.One of the hooks was like exposing this.And then one of the hooks was like very straightforward.Like I track my entire life is what I said.And then you could just see the difference in views.So I tested on TikTok and on YouTubejust to see which videos performed best on both of them.And the one where it says like exposing my system,that one made people curious to keep watching.So it got the most views.And the educational one, like three ways to do this.Nobody wanted to watch a boring video like that, I guess.So it got the least views.Yeah, I got the feeling that the exposing onewould be the best one because that's the one that I'm like,yes, I want to know, expose me.But not only that, I actually, I think I said it twice.So like two of them had exposing this,but I said different things.One of them was I turned my life into a product.And one of them was I track my life.And then one of them also had the dashboard background,which made people curious what it was.And one of them just was a blank wall.And then you can see, even though I put like exposing this,it's not just that that made people keep watching.It's also like the visual hook in the backgroundand then the straightforward, like I track my entire life.So there's like three different hooks in one video,like the visual one, and then the text on screen,and then what I actually say.That's crazy.And then I have some main takeaways here as well.But all of that is in my YouTube video.Like I break down how to do all of itand my learnings and best practices.So you are like very, as I can see,like you're very experiment focused, you know,like you like to run like a lot of experimentsand data focused, I see.Do you do that for like,I mean, I understand you don't do itfor like every piece of content, right?But, or do you?I don't do it for every piece of content.It's only the ones that I feel like I want to testor do well, because it's just too much work otherwise.And that was in my YouTube video.I gave best practices for like how to test itand like when you should test it.Because now that I know this test,I can kind of use that for my future videoswithout needing to test them.Yeah, got it.Okay, yeah, that's super cool.I love that.And it's so cool that you share it, actually.I mean, even if it's for like premium subscribers,this is type of informationthat not so many creators share in the openbecause it's literally how the business is running.You know, it's like literally, you know,how it works behind the scenes.So it's super cool to see.So, you know, I think it's super cool that you do it.Part of the reason why I share everythingis because I also want other peopleto give me their thoughts.So like one thing was when I started posting YouTube videos,obviously they weren't very good,but I just wanted to get started and get in that habitand start practicingbecause that's how I got great at making short film video.Like my first video was so bad.And then some people, like in every video,I'm like, please leave a commentif you have any feedback for how I can improve.Some people said you need a better mic.So then the next video, I dug up my old micand I noticed more views.And then somebody the other week saidI needed more B-roll to make it more engagingbecause the content was good.It's just like, I needed to vary, you know, visual variety.So I'm gonna do that for my next video.So it's just like feedback to improve.Yeah, you listen to your audience actually, you know?So that's really interestingand really smart too, in my opinion.Yeah, and then something I discovered with long form videothat I'm hoping this video will do well inis mini hooks throughout the video.So in the very beginning of the video,I tested out like saying the outlineand then I tested out like kind of teasingand being like, you know,I'm gonna share this in like a few minutesor like I have this at the end.And I think that's hopefully why this podcastor this video would do well as well.Cause we keep saying like,we're gonna get to the numbers, the revenue,but then we just talk about other stuff.We have to wait for the numbers.Yeah, that's cool.No, I love that.And I love that you are always iterating and improving.You know, I think that's somethingthat's smart for creators to do.Test, continue to test the content all the time, you know?And even if you find something that works,just keep seeing the waysthat you can even make it better, right?And I think maybe I have an unfair advantagecause my full-time job is a growth marketerfor an education company.And I took a data analyst course with them.So it's like, I want to share this knowledge as wellcause not everybody has had those advantages that I've had.Yeah, I also come from a marketing background.So that really helps, you know,when you do this kind of stuff,like we are nerd, number nerds and stuff like thatand data nerds.So I don't really, but which by the way,I also wanted to mention like,and before we get to the numbers, you know,another mini hook.You mentioned you have a full-time job.How do you do so much content and so much like everythingon top of like having a full-time joband on top of like, because you are a nomad, right?So you're traveling the world more or less every few weeks.So how do you manage like all of that?How crazy is that?It gets hectic sometimes,but I actually don't even spend that much time workingbecause I'm doing like a 75 hard challengewhere you have to spend 45 minutes outside working outand another 45 minutes working out indoorsor like doing whatever.So like hours of my time is spent going outsideand like taking care of myself, things like that.Like I have to go touch grass or else like,mentally I'm not good.So I think for me, I'm really luckybecause I have a remote joband then like I work nighttime eveningcause I work on Australian time zoneand it's like very flexible.I can get a lot done very quickly.So I have that flexibility.And usually what I do for my own creative businessthroughout the day is in the morning I wake upand like I do my own stuff.In the afternoon I can like go to my work meetings.I'm a night owl.So my work meetings are until like 12 a.m.which is fine for me, but not good for everyone, right?So I'm just like used to working at nightwhereas other people, I think they might get tiredfrom like going into the office and stuff.So my schedule is usually in the morning,I do my own stuff.And then during work hours,if I think of something or if I learn something,sometimes I tweet it.So some of the learnings are from my full-time job as well.And at the end of the week, I just compile all the tweetsand then that's when I make all my content.Like I batch film everything and then I schedule everything.So like the entire week I can just kind of take it easy.Yeah, no, that makes a ton of sense.And that's a great way to actually managelike a full-time thing with content creation on the sideis like batching things and not leaving it for the daybecause if you have like an urgency at workor you have to like do whatever,you won't do the content for that day.And that's super easy to like just not do itfor the next day and the next day.So I think that's super cool.I also have my ROI graphs, which I will share,but you can see like sometimes I spend so much timeon content, but then it doesn't even matterbecause like the ROI is not there.And then sometimes I'll spend not a lot of timeon like this other revenue stream.And then you can see the ROI is just like super high.Yeah.Has like B2B especially, they pay a lot more.Yeah, I was going to ask because that's one of the thingsthat I saw like your monetization reports.I think I watched your March video actually.So for last month, and you mentioned that B2B was higher.So I'm interested in that, you know, because as a creator,how do you manage both, you know, like the B2B part of itand the B2C part of it.So maybe we can talk a bit about that toobecause I think that's interesting for other creators.Yeah, actually for the B2B side,it's mostly like sponsorships or other businesses.So like kind of agency related work.And that is mainly because I put my email in my bio,like on most of my creator platforms.I don't think I have it on Twitter,but like Instagram for sure.And ever since then people keep emailing mewith opportunities, but this month I can sharemy finances for April, but like I got a lot less B2Bbecause, you know, like I had to refusesome of the sponsorship because it wasn't really relevantto my audience, but that's just what happenswhen you put the link in your email, in your bio.So this is for April.I actually did two different versions for Aprilbecause I sent a few invoices,but they weren't due until later in May.So even though I made the money in April,it was like, you know, it didn't hit my bank accounttill May, so I actually made two versions.One was cash basis accounting, the other was accrual,and you can see the difference.So the total I made in April, like revenue,not profit, is 2.5K if I went by like the actual moneyI received this month, but if I did like accrual basis,which is like, you know, all the invoices I sent,it's almost 10K.Almost, almost, super short of the 10K, right?I know.Literally $5 short.That's crazy.But yeah, no, that's super good, that's super cool.Yeah, I can dive into more of this,but let me talk about the ROI on my time first.So B2B and B2C, it's very like similar numbers herebecause sponsors pay a lot.You really only need like one or two sponsorsto make up for like hundreds of template sales.And so 58% of my income was from B2B and 42% was B2C.And I looked at the time I spent,so like 44 hours for B2B and 20 hours for B2C.And you can just see the ROI graph,like the ROI is much higher for B2B than B2C, I think.Yeah.Yeah, the ROI is just like 44 versus 20.So like it's almost double that of B2C.Yeah, so, but the other thing is like,this is like, this makes a ton of sense,obviously like B2B, which is, you know,sponsorships, as you said, and everything,like brands are willing to pay morebecause they have more budgetthan usually like regular people.Also you are selling like, let's say lower ticket products.So, you know, your templates are like 5, 10, 40 bucks.It's not like a hundred on 200.Maybe in the future you will have something like that,probably, like a product like that.But right now you don't.So, I mean, it makes sense that it's higher,but on the other end, like a lot of people would arguethat they prefer to have like more B2C thingsbecause it's like more B2C revenue, I mean,because it's more under your control, right?Because if you have like this templateand you know that you send five emails a month,you will sell like, you know, 2K, for example,but sponsorships one month can be 10K,next month can be zero, right?So how do you feel about that?How do you think about that part?That's exactly why I was so confusedabout where to focus on because I was so like,I want this, but I also want that.And it's just like splitting my focus everywhere.And my toxic trait is thinking I can do everything,but it just takes a lot longer.So like, as you can see here, my revenue here,it's like, since my focus is very splitthe last month or so,and then like the virality kind of went down after,I went viral like end of December, early January,but I didn't charge for anything in January.So it's like very, you can tell thatthere was a lack of focusbecause I didn't push out as many productsor promote my products this month,just because I was focusing on likeso many different areas of the business.And then you can see as a result of that,it kind of went down, but now I guess next month is setbecause I got some sponsorships and contracts in the works.Yeah, so next month it will be really good.Okay, yeah, but as I said,like super interesting to see that you track everything.I think this is super smart and to see like differences.So you have like here, we are looking at the graphicbetween difference between the sponsorships,between newsletter and Instagram,which that's the other thing because when we mentionedyour newsletter is on the productivity side and so on,do you get the same sponsors for like Instagramand newsletter or is it like separate?They usually just want to sponsor one channel.Do they want to sponsor both?I think that's also like an interesting thing.Yeah, what I found is it depends on the company.Some companies, they only want like a video.Other companies, they want the conversions,which I think are easier to track with newsletterbecause it can track all the clicks.Actually, most of my newsletter sponsorscome from Beehive's ad network.So that's why like most months it's more consistentbecause every week they just send me ad opportunities,whereas for Instagram, it's like,I don't really do too much outreach.So it's just waiting for them to see my email, my bio,and then emailing me and then seeing if it's a fit.Yeah, is that something that you want to change,like doing outreach to brands that actually alignor are you still like, well, sponsorships,like just keep them inbound and that's it?Yeah, I think I prefer inboundbecause like I did try to reach outto a lot of different companies,but it was just so hard chasing them downand like always following up.And I was like, this is not whereI want to be spending my time.Yeah, makes sense.And I feel like inbound,like it's a lot easier to close the deal as well.And with Beehive, because I actually sawthat you tweeted once that you made like,you know, that Beehive is actually really reliable for you,that it brings like a ton of money.So how do you do that?Because it's this type of fast that you make moneyby the click, right?So how many clicks you get,you get paid like, you know, $1, $2, I don't know.So is there anything special that you do that,you know, to get more clicks or is it just that,you know, you put it there and it works?I think I got a lot of money from the newsletter.Like you can see in January, February, March,it's like a lot of money from sponsorshipsbecause everybody was very engaged with my content.Some people were like, oh, I clicked on this adand then like I purchased it because I wanted to support youor because like, you know, I found it relevant,but also because I wanted to support you.So that was really nice of them to do.But in April, like I cleaned out my entire listbecause my opening rates were droppingand I didn't want that,which is why there's like less sponsorship money.And yeah, so there's like so muchthat I could talk about with Beehivebecause it was very interestingsince I actually have less Beehive newsletter subscribersthan I do Instagram followers.Like Instagram, I have 70K, but for subscribers,since I cleaned out my list,it's been like 11K or something like that.So, but I still make more money from the newsletterthan from Instagram.And I try to post on Instagram almost every day,but Beehive newsletter,the free version at least is once a week.And so is the premium one,but like basically I write two newsletters,one free and one paid.So it doesn't take me that long to write the newsletter.It does take me a while to write the premium one,which makes sense because it's paid,but the free one, like maybe 30 minutes or 45.Yeah, and then for Instagram, it's like,I have to film and I have to editand I have to schedule and make the captions.So like you can see ROI is a lot higher for newsletter.Is that something that in the futureyou are thinking about like,well, maybe I should just focus more on emailbecause the ROI is higher.It takes less for me to do it.Or like, how do you think about that?I think I still like making videos on Instagram.Email is good,but I feel like I don't get the same level of feedback.Like some people vote in my polls and reply to the email,but on Instagram, people are like commenting stuff.They're DMing me, they're replying to my stories.And that makes me really like posting content.So I like writing and posting content.So like, just because I like both,I'm gonna continue doing both.Yeah, as long as you can do it,then you know, that's, I mean, it makes a lot of sense.Okay, can we take a look at the, all the revenue streams?Because I think you have like there,the thing that you shared at the beginning.Yes.What we saw there right now.So these are my revenue streams for April.So most of it was from coaching.And then some of it was from templatesand subscribers and sponsors.So like templates, premium subscribers and sponsorsare pretty evenly split.And coaching is like 40% of this pie chart.But this is like cash-based accounting,like how much money I actually received.It's like agency related work.So this is like newsletter set up servicesand like helping people get organized on motion.That's 45%, which is like 4.5K.And then after that is like sponsorsbecause I landed a pretty big sponsorjust for like one Instagram video.And that was like $2,000.Wow, great.Yeah, I had to negotiate hard for that one, by the way,which is like another thing that I feel likeinfluencers aren't really taught.So I had an article about how to negotiateand like what I did.Like I screenshotted the emailand blurred out the sponsor's name and everything.Oh, that's super cool.So with the agency work that you do,so that's like a bit more service-based,is that because people were asking you to do like,hey, I need help with this.And you're like, yeah, sure, I charge this for this.You know, kind of like that.That's kind of what I mean by focus being splitbecause every time someone requests something from me,I have to make a custom package,like proposal, scope of work for them.But I think that's okay to do once I start,like when I'm getting started,because I'm kind of seeing where the demand isand then kind of doing it.So then I have a template for what to do in the futureif I want to pursue it.But right now I am doing a lot of like agency,one-on-one coaching work because my long-term goalis to eventually like take all of those insightsand see what questions that people are asking.So I can turn it into like a course or a book or something,but I need to like be able to talk to peopleand know what their problems are in order to do that.So I don't mind trading like my time for moneyat this stage right now,because it'll lead to better insightsand more valuable product in the future.Yeah, that's super smart.And that was going to be my next question.Like, what's the end goal?So do you want to be like 100% productized in the future?I understand, like you don't want to have liketime for money once you have that, right?So that's the end goal.Yeah, actually I do like talking to people a lotand going to meetings and stuff and like hosting events.It's just, I travel a lot,so like sometimes the time zones are a little bit difficult.Like in February, I actually made,okay, almost 2K in February.That was kind of when I kind ofstarted charging for my stuff.I had to take meetings at like 1 or 2 a.m.because I was in a different time zone,which like I was willing to do,but it was just like, I wish I could reschedule,but then another time didn't work.So that's why I've been so hesitantin also starting a communitybecause once you get popular on Instagram,you have all these people DMing me like,I can set up your mailing listor like I can set up a community for you.And I always said nobecause like I didn't want to manage a community.I didn't want to like hop on weekly live callswith the community, even though I know I would like it.It's just my schedule is sometimes unpredictableand I don't know which time zone I'll be in.So I had to say no to that potential revenue stream,even though it could be like,somebody told me I could get 20K per monthwith like a premium community,whereas people think,because like I just have so many followers, right?If I'm able to convert like 1% of them,this is like how much I can make and things like that.But I was like,I'm not willing to spend my time on the community,even though I know I would like it.It's just, I didn't want my whole life to be like,I need to check what people are posting right now.Yeah, a community is like really intense, I would say.I mean, I experienced it within myselfand I know other people that have onesand I would say the intensity is the word, you know?Especially if you are alone early on,or if it's just, you know, you and maybe someone elseis like, you need to be in charge of everything.You need to be talking to people.You need to be showing up for like all of the meetings.So if you are, if in your case, you are like travelingand you don't have that much, you know, time and so on,it could be a little bit tricky for sure.Yeah, exactly.Cool.Do you have like anything else that you wanna,you know, you wanna share about like these numbers?Because I mean, first of all, I thank you for sharing thisbecause this is crazy.Like no one ever shared that muchin this podcast or anything.So that's super cool.But do you have like anything else that, you know?Yeah, I think my main thing,like if people are listening to this for advice,my main thing is what I did was I tried to doas much as I could just to learn.And then I'm gonna like focus on what works.Because I didn't wanna come up with somethingand put all this effort and then it turns outnobody wants it.Because like from the startup mindset,I'm like, I need to validate before I do anything.So if you look at my income streams,in January, it was mostly premium subscribersbecause there was of course churn,which I forgot to account for.So in January, I made a lot more from premium subscribersand from sponsorships and stuff.And then February, you can see like most of it was sponsors.Some was like agency services,which was just me making videosand managing the social media account of a brand.I also tried out doing masterclass.And this one, I didn't make enough for itto like really make it worth doing again, I think.Because I had to like prepare all the slidesand I have to like do all the emails.And I felt like maybe my emails weren't the bestbecause I didn't like being too salesy.And it was like, you know, pay for my masterclass.I feel weird sending this.So I think in the future, if I feel weird about anything,I'm just not gonna do it.Like I have to be excited about it.And then I also tried out mentorshipbecause I wanted to validate my one-on-one coaching service.So before I even pitched it to my audience,I signed up for a mentor cruiseand a lot of people actually reached out to me,which I did not expect.And I learned a lot about the people I want to work withversus the people I didn't.Because some people, I try my best to help,but like if they don't want to take actionto help themselves and I obviously,I'm like, why are you wasting your money?And then that also led to high trend.So in my one-on-one consultations,which I started doing after trying mentorship for two months,I was like, I'm only gonna accept peoplewho I think will like put in the workand who I can help a lot more.So like in March, it was a lot of sponsors,agency services again, and I made a lot from templates,but I do cash basis accounting.So actually most of the template saleswere made in February.It's just, they got paid out in March.And then April, it's like completely different.I started focusing more on high ticketand I wrote about this in my premium newsletter.I was like looking at my ROI graphsand like, you know, you can see B2B is like super highand the B2C is like maybe half that.So I was like, I'm gonna focus on more high ticket,working with businesses more like,you know, high ticket coaching.And then that's what I did.And you can see that reflected in my finances in Aprilbecause I was more intentional about doing more high ticketand like I announced it to everybodyon my premium subscribers list.Yeah, I think it's super cool to seehow that has been evolving.And I mean, it literally has been evolving in four months,you know, so it's not that, you know, since January to today,which is four months, literally.But it's super cool to see how you are experimentingwith all of these kinds of making money online,you know, that the creator can make, you know,like coaching, like sponsorships, all of that.And at the end of the day, by the end of the year,you probably will stick with the modelthat works best for you, that has more ROI.And just with that, it will be easier for you to scale.But if you haven't tried it first,which is the, what you're doing right now,I think you're at the stage that you need to try this stuff.You know, you never know what will work, right?So I think your approach is really smart.And data driven, which is really cool too and interesting.So I think it's super cool that you're doing it like that.Yeah, thanks.Another thing I just wanna be mindful ofis sometimes your instincts are right.So if you're really excited about somethingand you think people will like it,you have to post about it multiple times and not,you know, because like, if you just have one data pointto go off of, it's not really accurate.So an example of this was on my Twitter,I tried promoting my playbooks waitlist.So I was writing, I actually polled people a lot.So I'm like, do you wanna see a short form video,like influencer marketing playbook or like a newsletter oneand everybody picked newsletters.So I was like, okay, I'm gonna write thisand I have an outline for it.So I read the outline and I'm like,what do you guys think?Like, do you think I should add or remove anything?And then I always link the waitlist,but you know, a lot of people can like my tweets,but I look at how many like signups I get on the waitlist.So I'm not gonna write it and make time for ituntil I get at least like 100 submissions on the waitlist.And right now I have 42.So I'm just gonna keep promoting it.And I get it.Yeah, until you get there.That makes a lot of sense to pre-validate before anything.But that's also what happened before I went viral.Like I knew there was something like that I hadthat was really cool.And I posted it once, it didn't take off.So I had to post it multiple timesbefore it finally took off.So if there's something that I have conviction on,I'm gonna post it a lot more than once.Yeah, yeah.That's cool too because sometimes we just post onceand it doesn't work for whatever reason and we scrape it.But if you know like, okay, no, this thing is good.You know, maybe it's just like the timing,as you said, like in the beginning with your viral videos,maybe it's just the timing or whatever.So if you have that conviction, just go for it.I think that's really good advice.We can start to wrap it up.Do you have like any last piece of advice?You know, someone that is actually listening to thisand is like, okay, yes, I wanna be like her.This is super cool.Where would you point them to get started?What would you say that as the first three thingsthat they need to do?Yeah, so I actually got this question a lotfrom like people I do discovery callsand one-on-one consultations with.And what I found inspires them the mostwas sharing like my own personal story.So the advice is hidden in the story.Basically, I started when I was hired at my full-time joband I had to make TikToks.I was managing the social mediaalong with a lot of other things.And my first TikTok was really bad.Like I had a whole script.I was like memorizing the script.It was so awkward.Like the lighting wasn't good.And I was like looking back on it, it was so bad.But I just kept making more and more TikToks.I was posting like five times a daybut all of the TikToks kind of sucked.It was like me filming my screenand there's text on screenor like me filming my face and then text on the screen.Like I wasn't even saying anythingbut that gave me a lot of practice.And then one year later, I started marathon training.So I was like, I wanna document thisfor me to look back on in the futureand maybe inspire some people in the process.So I, every single day I made a vlogand that was how I practiced.Like my first vlog and then my last vlog,you can, like after the marathon,you can see the difference.So I would train for like one or two monthswhich I don't recommendbecause you need longer than that for marathon training.But I, every single day,like I would just film little bits about my life.And at the end, at nighttime,I would just edit a video and do a voiceover.And then some of the videos,none of the videos went viral obviously,but then that made me more confident with editingand getting faster and like seeing what looks better.And then I started posting like other content.So like after my marathon, I was like,let me try this entertainment content,like travel content, food contentand like productivity content.And I really wanted to be in travel and everythingbut it was just so hard to dig up all my old travel videosand like put it together.You know, so what ended up easiest for me to createwas productivity content.And since I already had all of those other skillsfrom editing blogs and like not going viral,but I still got a lot of video editing skills.That I think was what made one of my videos go viralbecause it was like posting at the right time,but also the video had to be good in the first place.And then of course, after I went viral,I had to get very fast at editing and posting my videosto make them engaging so that people would continuefollowing me and watching my videos.So my biggest piece of advice I said was consistencybecause I think a lot of people give upbefore they have that chance to go viral.But if you keep putting in the reps,like eventually like one of them is gonna do well.Yeah, I think that's really good advice.Consistency always wins.It's super cliche, but it's the truth, right?Yeah, that plus pre-validatingbefore you put in a lot of effort into building something.Because I didn't have an email newsletter when I went viral.In my bio, I just wrote coming soon.Because as a marketer, I'm like, I need to collect emails.I wasn't gonna put in the effort every single weekto write a newsletter.So when I did go viral, I got a lot of subscribersbecause people were checking out my profile.And that's how I grew to like 11K in just two weeks.And what I noticed is that because I had already optimizedmy profile, people were more likely to subscribebecause some of my other friends also went viral,but then they got no subscribers.Or like they didn't get any followers.So my view to follow conversion rateand my view to newsletter subscribe conversion ratewas really high because I optimizedall these different things.And then it's just like there's a lot of little thingsthat add up if you have the experienceand if you're consistent with it.So I would say consistency is most important.Everything else comes after that,including putting in all this effortto build something that you think people would like,a newsletter.Because I only started writing weeklyonce I got enough subscribers.Yeah, I love that.I love that part too.I just don't do it before, you know,for sure that people like want it, you know?So I think that's another great piece of advice.Well, thanks a lot for sharing so much literallyon the podcast.I really appreciate you coming.So where can people find more about you?Like, I mean, we talked about like everything that you have,but you know, where can people find you right now?Yeah, so I'm on like all the social media platformsbecause what's interesting is I noticed some videosthat don't do well on Instagram,but they do very well on YouTube.And I'm getting emails from people saying,I found you from YouTube,or I found you from like all these other different platformsthat's not Instagram, which is my biggest following.So that's like why I schedule everything everywhere.So my username is VeganTechNomadon all the social platforms,but Twitter, I'm Jennifer Jo, C-H-O-U, 25.Okay, perfect.Super cool.Thanks again, Jennifer.And, you know, see everyone else on the next episode.Thanks for having me.Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!Hey!